It looks as if masculinity itself has exploded into the room.
The walls, floor, and ceiling are covered in dark tones that suck up the light. Next to a framed American flag is a bar lit from below, where translucent bottles of alcohol look like ice sculptures. On opposite walls, blown-up photographs of combat scenes in massive gilded frames of the sort you would see in the Romantic wing of a fine arts museum. And in the middle of this studio-cum-mancave, two brown leather armchairs facing each other. This is where Shawn Ryan, aspirant to the Joe Rogan throne, interviews his guests.
The Shawn Ryan Show聽is currently #2 on the Spotify USA podcast chart for Society and Culture. In聽, Ryan said, 鈥淚 want to take the Rogan slot,鈥� meaning that he got bored of making videos about guns and wanted to have broad conversations with different guests. Ryan (real name聽) was a Navy SEAL turned security contractor who is now running parallel to Rogan, platforming questionable guests who confide to him their beliefs in pseudoscience, conspiracy theories, and paranormal phenomena. The microphones above their heads, discreetly out of frame in the close-ups, pump this message out to聽聽on YouTube and many more who simply listen in wherever they get their podcasts.
搁测补苍鈥檚听聽is to document history from the perspective of military heroes; to bring hope; to uncover corruption; and to bring truth. That last one is a tough goal to hit. It was his therapist who gave him a light-bulb moment: she didn鈥檛 say much but just let him talk. He does the same with his guests and that鈥檚 a problem. With no pushback, unorthodox figures are free to claim whatever they want.
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
翱苍听The Shawn Ryan Show, studies are used like bullets. They fly at you in such a blur that there鈥檚 no time to question their origin. Unlike with Rogan, who will occasionally ask his assistant Jamie to Google a claim during the recording, Ryan does no fact-checking. Will the listener? We鈥檙e a far cry from Stephan Guyenet bringing聽聽on Rogan鈥檚 show to cite from.
When Ryan interviewed science podcasting megastar Andrew Huberman鈥攚ho has his own聽pseudoscientific takes聽on dietary supplements鈥攖he neuroscientist mentioned a scary-sounding study: the food dye Yellow No. 5, also known as tartrazine, was shown in a study to make a mouse鈥檚 belly transparent to light when applied to their skin. Any bright orange or yellow processed food you eat contains this chemical, thanks to the FDA. Huberman聽聽about the long-term toxicity of consuming it if it can do that to the skin of a mouse.
The problem is, the聽聽he mentions wasn鈥檛 scary; it was neat. It was a demonstration that this could potentially be used in humans to view and monitor injuries without needing medical scans or surgery. The reason it works is that tartrazine reduces the amount of light that is scattered by the skin and allows more of that light to penetrate through.
To foment trepidation over what tartrazine does to us in this context is akin to what the Food Babe once did: if the chemical azodicarbonamide is used in the manufacture of yoga mats, why does Subway put it in its bread? Because chemicals have different properties and can serve multiple purposes. Besides, it鈥檚 the dose that makes the poison. The amounts of tartrazine in our food are strictly controlled. In fact, despite online rumours that Yellow No. 5 has been banned in Europe for being toxic, the聽, where it is called E102, 颈蝉听丑颈驳丑别谤听迟丑补苍听: 7.5 milligrams per kilogram of body weight per day compared to 5. (RFK Jr has recently announced a phasing out of this dye based 辞苍听unsupported anxieties.)
Huberman also tells Ryan that it鈥檚 one particular bacterium,聽, that causes cavities. Actually,聽S. mutans聽makes up聽less than 2%聽of the bacteria that cause cavities. Why is a neuroscientist talking about food and dentistry on a major podcast? Because when you think you鈥檝e stumbled upon a secret truth the average person doesn鈥檛 know, you want to share it, and overconfidence is a strong motivator to open your mouth in front of a microphone.
These secret truths shared on Shawn Ryan鈥檚 show, I should point out, are often wrapped in fear. An ad read done by Ryan for a meat company that sponsors his show claims that聽聽used in the U.S. go to animals. 鈥淭hat鈥檚 what you鈥檙e eating,鈥� he points out before plugging his sponsor, who of course claims not to use antibiotics. That 80% figure聽颈蝉听, but there鈥檚 a聽聽after a farmer uses antibiotics鈥攁nd this use is generally, but not always, done for good reasons, such as alleviating suffering from animals that contracted an infection. The withdrawal period means that the odds of you eating meat that contains antibiotic residue are very, very low. (It鈥檚 also聽, although given the current regime, I wouldn鈥檛 be surprised if testing is negatively affected moving forward.) The real issue with antibiotics in farm animals is their overuse, which can breed antibiotic resistance.
If you鈥檙e not scared enough, witness Paul Saladino, a proponent of the carnivore diet, tell Ryan that the electromagnetic frequencies (EMF) used in WiFi and Bluetooth signals are so frightening, you may want to rethink how you listen to this very podcast. 鈥淏y wearing AirPods,鈥� he聽, 鈥測ou are essentially walking around with a small, low-powered microwave all day long,鈥� which is meant to be worrying as he just finished reminding listeners that their mom probably told them not to stand next to the microwave oven when they were growing up. Ryan himself is one step ahead of Saladino. He tells him he wants to block all EMF signals from entering his bedroom, so he 颈蝉听聽covering the entire room in聽lead paint.聽This former Navy SEAL is so freaked out over a non-existent risk that he is willing to bring a known, major health risk into his house. Saladino, incidentally, never mentions that lead paint can cause聽; rather, he tells him it will keep the WiFi signal bouncing around the room, like a ricochet, which is why he recommends simply turning off electronic devices at night instead.
The amount of medical misinformation I heard in the five episodes I sampled is on par with what you glean from聽The Joe Rogan Experience.聽You will hear from Gary Brecka, who got聽聽from an alternative medicine school and now sells protocols to 鈥渉ack鈥� your biology, that the kind of cholesterol vilified in medicine 颈蝉听聽and that statins that lower cholesterol exist because聽. This bit of 鈥渃holesterol denial鈥� is quite prevalent these days, even if it does not hold up to聽. The COVID-19 pandemic gets put through the conspiracy wringer on the show, with Brecka falsely claiming that Operation Warp Speed聽聽for the COVID-19 vaccines. It didn鈥檛: the same trials were done, it鈥檚 just that the trials overlapped. They were expedited, not eliminated.
Brecka, by the way, has his own pseudoscientific panacea to plug: hydrogenated water. When Shawn Ryan went over to his house, Brecka invited him to bathe in it. Ryan鈥檚 aches and pains, he says, had disappeared the next morning.
And if you鈥檙e wondering how Brecka, who gets to speak for nearly three and a half hours, arrives at his conclusions, you should know that his motivated reasoning comes from on high. To people complaining about an autoimmune disease, Brecka聽, 鈥淚鈥檓 going to assume that God didn鈥檛 make a mistake.鈥� It鈥檚 a cavalcade of religiously inflected pseudoscience delivered with so much medical jargon that it sounds convincing, even when he states that there鈥檚 a giant gap in the fossil record that nullifies the theory of evolution. 搁测补苍鈥檚听? 鈥淲ow鈥�. I didn鈥檛 know that.鈥�
While Shawn Ryan鈥檚 health-focused episodes do get views (both Rucka鈥檚 and Huberman鈥檚 episodes received roughly 1.5 million views on YouTube), it鈥檚 the ones treading 辞苍听齿-贵颈濒别蝉听territory that take the cake.
The truth is out there in the mancave聽
鈥淲辞飞.鈥�
This word comes out of Ryan鈥檚 mouth a lot, but this 鈥渨ow鈥� was in response to his guest聽聽that our consciousness can reach聽into the future聽to influence a decision in the now. 鈥淣inety studies proved it.鈥�
Here too, the studies don鈥檛 survive scrutiny. Sean Webb, a self-described聽聽who explores the mind, regales his host with tales of research participants being shown photos they had to judge as 鈥渃ute鈥� or 鈥渦gly.鈥� One of those words would flash very quickly, influencing the selection. Except that the word was flashed聽补蹿迟别谤听the selection. You may 鈥渨ow鈥� now.
鈥淚t occurred in 90 different experiments, 33 labs, 14 countries,鈥� he concludes. It was proven: your subconscious could look into the future. 鈥淓ven the most vehement skeptics weren鈥檛 able to poke any holes in it,鈥� he聽. Except that, of course, they were.
What he is referring to is Daryl Bem鈥檚 infamous聽聽of 90 studies on the 鈥渁nticipation of random future events,鈥� where it seems that precognition had been proven to exist. Not so much, as the most lauded experiment of the lot absolutely聽. Those 鈥渧ehement skeptics鈥� not only disproved it but one of them, Professor Chris French, wrote about it in聽!听It鈥檚 all available online, but if you only get your information from your paranormal echo chamber, you won鈥檛 see it.
Precognition is one thing, but what about UFOs? With 5.6 million views鈥攖he most for that playlist鈥攖he聽聽featuring Michael Herrera is certainly compelling. It is titled 鈥淯S Marine Encounters UFO Black Ops Human Trafficking Operation.鈥� In 2009, Herrera鈥檚 unit responded in the wake of a major earthquake in Indonesia. While trekking through the jungle, they came across a slope going down to a large open area. And there, he claims to have seen聽, 鈥渂igger than a football field,鈥� hovering above a platform. His unit was intercepted by an unidentified but American-sounding troop of soldiers, yelling at them and threatening to kill them. Eventually, the ship shot off toward the ocean, with no sound and no wind. Just a blur, like the Starship聽贰苍迟别谤辫谤颈蝉别听entering warp speed.
You may wonder if Herrera saw human beings trafficked onto or out of this alien ship. After all, that鈥檚 the title of the video. The answer is no. A bit before taping this show, Herrera was giving a talk about his experience, and聽聽(someone who allegedly 鈥渨orks in some of these projects at some very controversial facilities鈥�) to tell him that the big containers Herrera had seen on the trucks belonging to that unidentified black ops troop? They didn鈥檛 have drugs in them, as Herrera had hypothesized; they had聽丑耻尘补苍蝉听in them. Herrera himself never saw the humans.
奥丑补迟听诲颈诲听he see? I don鈥檛 know. He says he was filming with a Panasonic camera, but I haven鈥檛 been able to find the footage. All I see are drawings and reproductions. He also says his team didn鈥檛 have 鈥渃omms,鈥� meaning they were isolated and couldn鈥檛 communicate with anyone else. Was it a dream? A psychotic episode? Was he on mind-altering drugs? Is he lying for attention? Those aren鈥檛 accusations; but when someone makes an extraordinary claim, we need to rule out more ordinary causes.
It's worth pointing out that this black ops team is said to have intimidated Herrera and his fellow officers, who had just seen evidence of an exceptional cover-up, before simply letting them go. They weren鈥檛 killed to suppress the truth. They were allowed to leave. I suppose the reason is that no one would believe them anyway.
What鈥檚 ironic is that聽补肠迟耻补濒听human trafficking does happen, but as with the much-criticized, Jim-Caviezel-starring聽Sound of Freedom,聽we see people more interested in a fictional version of it, in this case shadowy militaries using alien spacecrafts to traffic people in the middle of natural disasters. It鈥檚 a good story. But does it 鈥渂ring truth,鈥� as Shawn Ryan wants to do? I doubt it.
Intellectual jiu-jitsu
When skeptics Michael Marshall and Cecil Cicirello analyze聽The Joe Rogan Experience聽辞苍听, they end by trying to find one redeeming quality in the episode. If I had to do the same for聽The Shawn Ryan Show,聽I would say that it gets men to open up. Ryan鈥檚 unwillingness to ask too many questions births pregnant pauses that his male guests feel compelled to fill. It鈥檚 a form of therapy鈥攗nregulated and unqualified鈥攖hat many of these stoic men probably need.
But unlike therapy, this is being broadcast to the entire world. The production values of聽The Shawn Ryan Show聽surpass those of the 6 o鈥檆lock news. This podcast is slick, and while its traditionally masculine aesthetics may not appeal to all, we should remind ourselves that convincing people requires more than data. The right look, tone of voice, clothes, and affect can do a lot to persuade someone that they are microwaving their brain every day by using wireless headphones.
The apex podcasters鈥擱ogan, Ryan, Andrew Huberman, Lex Fridman鈥攌now they are leaving traditional media behind in the dust. Huberman tells Ryan he finds it amusing when聽The New York Times聽health section covers some of the same topics he addresses on his show. 鈥淎 good percentage of it is just poached off of podcasts, now,鈥� he聽. 鈥淭hey鈥檙e in competition with us. We鈥檙e not reporting on them, because, frankly,聽飞别鈥檙别听not in competition with them.鈥� The thing is, corporate media, for all of its flaws, has editorial guardrails in place. Podcasters can say whatever they want with little consequence. Ryan and his ilk rarely push back against the falsehoods their guests spew. Why not? First, they often agree with them, but second? Huberman聽: 鈥淗ow do you actually convince a guest to communicate what they really believe in if you鈥檙e constantly challenging them?鈥� Reflecting on what Lex Fridman does, Huberman says, 鈥淗e is doing intellectual jiu-jitsu. Lex is a podcast genius. Joe is a podcast genius.鈥� And he addresses Shawn Ryan himself. 鈥淎nd you鈥檙e doing the same.鈥�
This self-congratulatory movement is flooding the ears of listeners everywhere with misinformation, half-truths, and conspiracy theories, with no fact-checking and no in-house denunciation. This kind of platform is hard to refuse for someone with questionable views looking for publicity: Shawn Ryan hosted Donald Trump, Tucker Carlson, JD Vance, Kash Patel, and Pete Hegseth. The show becomes a vehicle for low-grade anxiety and conspiracy allegations, occasionally interrupted by 鈥渨ow鈥漵 and sponsorships for food buckets, gold, and a supplement called BUBS Natural that gave Ryan聽.
None of it sounds alarmist, though. Guests speak calmly for hours on end, like they are sitting in a confessional, and they can make the most astounding claim sound really convincing. And by not saying much, Ryan can appear to be wiser than he really is.
In a recent聽, Andrew Fedorov quotes a former officer from Shawn Ryan鈥檚 SEAL team, who summarizes what he and some of his military friends think of Ryan鈥檚 public platform: 鈥淚 cannot believe that f---ing idiot is a shot caller now.鈥�
Which reminds me of Joe Rogan,聽. 鈥淚鈥檓 not a doctor, I鈥檓 a f---ing moron.鈥�
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Take-home message:
- Shawn Ryan is a former Navy SEAL who now hosts a very popular podcast similar to聽The Joe Rogan Experience
- Many of his guests spread misinformation on health-related topics, such as electromagnetic frequencies, food dyes, and vaccines
- Other guests share stories about paranormal phenomena such as precognition and the secret use by military organizations of alien technology, topics that hark back to the TV show聽The X-Files
